Creative Chats With Alyssa Lawson (How Do We Teach Creativity to the Next Generation?)

This is a recording from a series for the podcast at the Mosesian Center for the Arts called Creative Chats. I sat down for a live conversation with cellist and educator Alyssa Lawson to discuss the question: How do we teach creativity to the next generation?

Alyssa shares her experiences as a Suzuki cello teacher for youth and teaching her own kids cello, the importance of building basic skills to even allow creative expression, getting beginners through "the dip", dealing with different types of learners and personalities, and the ultimate balance of teaching while not getting in the way of the student's creativity.

Find out more about Alyssa at alyssavlawson.com

Join the next Creative Chats event on April 3rd and the Creative Chats Conference on June 4th

Transcript

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Matt 0:07

Hi there, welcome to the Little Local Conversations Podcast. I’m your host, Matt Hanna. Every episode I sit down for a conversation to discover the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown. This episode is a Creative Chats episode, and this came from a recording from a live podcast event at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. Take a listen to the episode with Alyssa Lawson, who I had a conversation with about the topic of how do you teach creativity to the next generation? 

Matt: 0:33

Thank you everyone for showing up on this icy morning. It actually didn't wind up being as bad as they thought it might be. So thank you. For those of you who don't know, this is Creative Chats, which is part of my podcast, Little Local Conversations. And this series is just to have some conversations on the topic of creativity and give us a space to get together and have our discussions ourselves afterwards. And I always like to have a guest come in with a question that they're kind of grappling with around the creative life a little bit. So you don't have to feel like you're an expert in this. This is just something that you're experiencing a lot and going through a lot. So my guest today, Alyssa Lawson. Do you want to introduce who you are a little bit? And then we'll get into your question.

Alyssa 1:14

So I am Alyssa Lawson. I'm a cellist and a teacher. I live here in Watertown. It's funny because Matt and I have known each other for like 15 years, and I also know most of the people who are live here today. So it feels silly introducing myself, but I guess it's being recorded. So for those of you listening, I'm from New York originally, and I've lived in Watertown for about 15 years. Met Matt through a Craigslist ad because he was looking for band mates, and we were in a fun band for a while there. That was before children. So now I have two kids who are in the Hosmer School. And I teach at the Suzuki School of Newton. I'm a Suzuki Method cello teacher. I also teach at the German International School of Boston during the day while my kids are at school. So I find a lot of my time I'm thinking about how do you teach music to kids? Is it my job or is it my parenting? Because my kids are now also learning cello. So either way, I'm thinking about this question a lot.

Matt 2:18

Right. So the question we phrased it as, how do you teach creativity to the next generation? I mean, you kind of explained a little bit why that is coming up for you, but how are you actually dealing with that question in your day-to-day? Like take us through, let's go through. in your job, teaching kids for your job first, and then we'll deal with your own kids separately.

Alyssa 2:39

Sure. Although it does all blend together. Yeah, so I am a Suzuki teacher. That is a method that's named after Shinichi Suzuki, who was a Japanese educator. And he came up with this idea that every child can learn music similar to the way that they learn a language. So we're listening to this language ever since birth, even before birth. We're just getting immersed in it. Then our parents and our community around us are so encouraging to us and positive. And a kid says, Bah, and they're like, oh, he said bah. That's amazing. So just using all this positive reinforcement to really encourage that child to learn. And there are some other things that go along with the method. There's a standard repertoire that starts with Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, perhaps famously, the Twinkle variations, and then goes all the way up to concertos. And each piece in that method teaches you something new. So it's very logical and well laid out. And you can get teacher training to do that. And I've done the teacher training. 

Alyssa: 3:49

So it's a method that has a lot of structure to it. And I guess it was in the early 2010s. There was kind of this blow-up in the violin teaching world. This hotshot violinist started saying, oh, well, the Suzuki method, that doesn't really teach kids to be creative. You really got to do it this other way. And I was like, I am teaching kids to be creative. And I was very kind of defensive about that. But it really did make me think, like, okay, how can we use this very structured method to also let kids express themselves, be their own person, and incorporate other styles. And I guess that was kind of the beginning of the journey for me. I also happen to have a degree in ethnomusicology, so I've always been drawn to world music styles. I play Arabic music most often, but I've also dabbled in other styles. 

Alyssa: 4:44

And I really like pop music. And a lot of my students do too. So as I'm bringing them through this method, starting them with Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, which, you know, depending on their age, some of them are like, I can play Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. But the older ones are like, ah, Twinkle. But I still make them do it anyway because I know that it's going to give them all these amazing skills that are this really well-thought out, time-tested foundation. But also I start bringing in like the gummy bear song, which is this very inane, repetitive song that a lot of kids like these days. And the lava chicken from Minecraft, from the Minecraft movie. So then they start to see, oh, cello can play all of these different kinds of things that I like. 

Alyssa: 5:34

And another thing I do even from a really early phase is improvisation. And I know there are some really excellent improvisers in the audience. And when you're teaching music, a kid can improvise from a very early age. You can just be plucking open strings, you can be bowing different rhythms, you can be making scratchy sounds. So even from before they can play Twinkle, I ask kids to improvise. One way that's gotten a lot of traction recently is making a spooky story. So I ask them, okay, what's a spooky location? They'll often say like a haunted forest or a dark basement. And then I ask, if it's a group, another kid, okay, what's one creature or being that is in that location? They'll be like, zombie, ghosts. They're really creative thinking of all these things that describe the scene. And then I give them some structure for how they can choose what sounds to play. And we go around in a circle and we all listen to our sounds together, and they really love that. They can't even play Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. But they will. They will learn how to play Twinkle and they'll learn how to play all those other things that are in the method that I teach. Because I think you can't fully be creative unless you have the skills that support that creativity.

Matt 6:58

Yeah, that's kind of the question that was bubbling up as I was listening to all that is, how do you balance giving them skills while giving them the space to be creative? Like, can you take me through an example of maybe a couple different types of kids, like one who just wants to completely play whatever and you have to sell them on the structure of the skills, and then a separate example of a kid who is very following the rules and getting them to open up a little bit too and express themselves a little more.

Alyssa 7:23

Yeah, I think how do we find that balance? That's the million-dollar question. I have one kid right now who just wants to jam the whole lesson long. And he's so musical, and he's a great improviser, but he can't read music. And he's been at this for a while. So it's a struggle to get him to practice his music reading. Part of the beauty of the Suzuki method is the parent is in the room. So this parent and I have had some phone conversations and talked about strategy for how to support the kid in music reading. And we just do it a little bit at the beginning of every lesson. I tell him there's gonna be five exercises. Let's get them over with, and then we can do something fun. And I also talk until I'm blue in the face about how fun it's gonna be when he's really good at music reading and he can just go to a party with his friends and sight read string quartets. I don't think he uh, that has not been an effective line of argument so far.

Matt 8:24

He's not getting invited to a lot of string quartet parties yet. 

Alyssa 8:27

Not yet. Yeah, but he's also in an orchestra and he has to read music for that. Well, he struggles for a couple of weeks and then he learns it by ear and has it, his cello part fully memorized, and then it's fine. So he doesn't see a problem with it. So we're working on that. That's a struggle. But you know, worst case, this kid is just gonna turn out being a really great improviser who joins a band with his friends instead of having sight reading parties with his friends. So I think that kid is gonna be okay.

Matt 9:01

He's got the right spirit.

Alyssa 9:02

Yeah, he really does. And then the other end of the spectrum, I actually don't find as often because I think kids are born to be creative and they're so joyful and curious, and they have all these ideas coming out of them. 

Matt: 9:19

What age, I guess we haven't said, what's the age that you're working with? 

Alyssa: 9:22

Yeah. Well, youngest is four right now, and oldest is about to turn 18 next week. So it's the whole range. I guess there's sometimes a dip in the teen years when people start to feel like they have to follow the rules. So that can be tricky, but I'm really lucky because I get to start working with kids when they're really young and I remain their teacher for many years. So we're very connected, and I think they mostly feel safe with me and they can try out new things. Yeah, I guess I'm thinking of one student right now who definitely doesn't want to make mistakes in front of other people. So I try not to force her to improvise in group class. I try to encourage her to do it a little bit when we're one-on-one. I think it's gotten a little more comfortable for her. Sometimes I make mistakes or play something really weird on purpose just to be like, oh, that was weird. Tried it out. Just modeling, trying different things. And yeah, I think after knowing each other for so many years, either starting to let her guard down around me or just growing out of it a little bit. She's in high school now. So yeah, she's becoming a little more comfortable. 

Matt 10:43

Yeah. And I guess something we're kind of dancing around a little bit here too is what is the importance of teaching creativity to these kids? I mean, we're in a space here where probably a lot of us agree on this, but like, how do you talk about that to them too? Not just so you can play at string quartet parties, but like what's the greater importance of teaching this?

Alyssa 11:02

Well, unfortunately, we live in a society that's becoming so industrialized in terms of creativity. A couple hundred years ago, there was a piano in every home. And if you wanted to hear music, then you had to make it for yourself. And now if you want to hear music, you say, hey, Alexa, play music for me. So this power that we could have of making our own music is becoming more and more rare. And unfortunately, it's becoming more common that just the people who have money for music lessons and all of these musical extracurricular activities, those are the people that can make music for themselves. But I think there's this human urge to express ourselves. And music in particular can really be therapeutic. Well, I don't know. I'm here at the Mosesian Center for the Arts and surrounded by all these different art forms. And I think all of them can be therapeutic, of course, but I think it's important for everyone to have music as a modality of self-expression. And if you don't have the skills, then it's gonna be hard to express yourself through music.

Matt 12:12

Right. Since you're at the musicology stuff, do you notice any different approaches to creativity in those different cultures of music?

Alyssa 12:21

Hmm. That's a tricky question because I have not delved too far into music education globally. But I will say that there are a lot of cultures around the world that music is not generally written down or it's generally learned by ear, like Arabic music, for example. There are a lot of amazing musicians in that tradition who are not really that comfortable with reading music, but they're really amazing listeners. They just hear it and then they can play it back. European classical music does tend to be really focused on things that are written down. I think that's one thing that the Suzuki method does really well is it concentrates on learning by ear. So that focus on really paying attention to listening can develop these amazing ears in kids and they can pick up on traditions from all around the world. Not meaning to be a Suzuki PSA, by the way, not a shill. 

Matt 13:16

It's okay. Yeah, and what's been your, in this journey that you mentioned how it started to get on your mind to where you are now, what's the biggest change that you've done in your approach to teaching kids creativity?

Alyssa 13:28

I think the biggest change has been a focus on practicing. There's really no substitute for time spent with the instrument. And I think the analog for the other arts is there's really no substitute for just time by yourself focusing on your art form. And that takes a lot of discipline. And when I was just starting out as a teacher, I was afraid to ask students to make that commitment. I was just like, well, let's just keep it fun. I don't want to squish your motivation. Just practice when you can. Yeah, you can do it. Come on. And what I started to realize is that it's really hard in this busy modern society that we live in to make time for practice. And when you don't practice regularly over many years, you start feeling frustrated that you can't express yourself in the way that you want to. 

Alyssa: 14:23

So something that I started doing last year was keeping a practice streak for myself, practicing every day. I try to do it early in the morning. My first streak, I was like, oh, I'm about to fall asleep. Let me get out my cello for one minute and practice so I don't lose my streak. And then one day I just forgot. And the next day I woke up and I was like, oh no, my streak. I have to start over again. So I started again. And this time I said to myself, if this is something really important, I'm gonna do it early in the day so I don't forget. And I'm up to like 500 days or something like that now. And I feel good. I feel like I'm really putting my money where my mouth is. And I think that's a big part about teaching creativity. You have to do it yourself, do what you believe in. And I don't think that necessarily means like a big deal. Like I'm not out there playing concertos. My main love is teaching, but I do practice a little tiny bit every day and I encourage my students to do that too. And I try and work with them and their parents to talk about what else is in their life and how they can best structure their life or practice.

Matt 15:40

Because practicing a little every day is better than one two-hour session on Sunday or whatever.

Alyssa 15:45

Yes. And part of what changed my view on that is learning a little bit about the science and the neurology of how we're building a little bit of neural networking every day. And then when you go to sleep every day, brushing a little bit of it away, so you have to do it every day.

Matt 16:02

Yeah. Then I guess one last thing on the other side, you have the discipline side of it, then the expression side of it. I mean, you talked a little bit about like going through that spooky story. What other methods do you get them to express themselves other than say, just improvise? You know, what's the structure of getting them to express themselves?

Alyssa 16:20

Yeah. I guess I use various forms of improvisation. There's that one where you set a scene first and then you create that scene. If it's just two of us, I'll set a groove and then ask the student to solo over that groove and then we switch. Sometimes I'll have them pick a song. So I feel like that's part of creativity too, is picking your song that you want to work on and then making it your own. So sometimes I'll have them bring in a song and like add various ornaments or improvise on that tune. Sometimes, especially seniors in high school, I ask them to do a senior recital and they get to assemble a program for themselves. So they get to pick not just one song, but different songs that inspire them and crafting a program, how that goes together, how to communicate it to an audience. So perhaps an extended definition of creativity. And I just try to be open to what they're interested in and follow their interest.

Matt 17:21

Yeah. Well, is there anything else on this topic you feel like we haven't, I mean, I'm sure tons, but you feel like you want to get out before I open up to questions for you from the audience?

Alyssa 17:31

Yeah. Well, I guess the parenting part.

Matt: 17:33

Oh, right. We didn’t do that part, yeah.

Alyssa: 17:35

Has occupied a large segment of my brain these days. After spending many years teaching little kids and wishing the parents would help them practice more. Now I see it from the other side and I'm like, oh gosh, this is really hard. So it gives me a lot of empathy for the parents of students I've been teaching. My kids are four and six right now. And last year on January 1st, I was like, all right, we're doing this. You guys are gonna learn how to play the cello. So I got them the, well, first we started with no instrument at all. They were just sitting on a chair and kind of doing some finger exercises and singing and movements. And then they earned these little blue foam cellos that are the shape of a cello with an end pin. And it helps them find their posture and hold the cello. It's such a big instrument, and little kids tend to slump back in their chair when they have it leaning against them. And then after a hundred days of practicing with that, then they graduated to the real cello. 

Alyssa: 18:41

And there's been various levels of enthusiasm along the journey. I have tried to prop it up with like, oh, at 100 days, we're gonna go to Dave and Buster's, which is this arcade place that they really like. Or um, after 150 days, we're gonna make ice cream with an ice cream maker. I'm not saying if you make it to 100 days, we're gonna do this. I'm saying you are going to make it to 100 days and we're gonna celebrate with this. And that seems to be pulling them through. Well, it seemed to pull them through the first year because there were some times where they were just like, what is this instrument? I can't play anything. It's really hard. I'm putting in all this work and there's no reward yet. So the rewards is like sweets or outings or whatever. 

Alyssa: 19:32

But now, especially my six-year-old, he can play some songs. He can play all of his Twinkles and a few songs into Suzuki book one, and he can play the gummy bear song and Shakira Waka Waka, and he's got really good ears, and he can figure out some things that he wants to play. And I'd say his enthusiasm has not carried over into improvising yet, but I know that he has the skills to do it because he's got a great bow hold, he's got a great posture, and he's got those great ears. So I feel like it's the long game. I'm setting him up with the skills and gonna be opening it up for him to express himself when he's ready to do that. But oh my gosh, it's been so hard. There have been tears on all sides. So teaching creativity to the next generation is not for the faint of heart.

Matt 20:29

How has it changed your messaging to parents of your students? 

Alyssa: 20:32

Oh, just compassion. Yeah. 

Matt: 20:38

I want to make sure I lose some time here for questions from the audience. So thank you for sharing all of that. Questions from out here for Alyssa?

Alyssa 20:46

Or comments, since I know we have a lot of really creative people and teachers here. 

Speaker: 20:51

I was just wondering about your group lessons, how many students you have in a group? Are they all similar ages, different abilities, and how that goes? 

Alyssa: 20:59

Yeah, there's two different kinds of groups that I teach in the Suzuki method. Every student has private lessons once a week and group lessons once a week to get that ensemble experience. So that is similar ages, similar abilities. And that's with a pianist at our school. So we're really lucky the pianists are really good at jamming too. So they go with the flow. And then when I'm teaching at the German school during the week, that's their only instruction. So the first graders are all together in a little group of four. I only have one second grader right now, and then the third graders are all together in a group of six. That's been a big adjustment for me because I'm used to teaching one-on-one with a parent in the room. I've been so spoiled. And now I'm teaching like six kids how to hold a bow and how to put their fingers on the strings all together. But I think we've gotten to a place where we are all understanding each other. We've got a process in the class. And yeah, there was kind of a dip. Like the same with my kids, where they were like, oh, this is so hard. I can't play anything yet. And now come springtime, they can play a few songs and they're like, oh, this is working. I guess I'll pay attention in class now.

Matt 22:14

Yeah, that just reminded me, well, I don't teach so much anymore, but I used to teach adults a lot. I used to get the 40 years later story of that person who quit in that dip when they were a kid, and then coming back 40 years later and like, oh, I wish I had stuck with it. I want to learn again. So that is a, getting through the dip is a real thing.

Alyssa 22:29

Yeah. And people always say, I wish my parents hadn't let me quit. So then when my kids are like, eh, I don't wanna, I don’t wanna. I'm like, I can't let you.

Speaker 22:39

I'd love to hear a little bit about your own kind of beginning interest in music or cello specifically. And what was your education and your entry into this part of your creative self that kind of informs you as an educator now?

Alyssa 22:53

Yeah, it was a very winding road. I saw a presentation at my school when I was in third grade where the teacher came in and said, you could play this little string instrument or this medium one, or this big one. And I was like, oh, I want the big one. So that was my public school string program. By fourth grade, I think I had gotten to the dip, and I told my mom that I wanted to smash my cello into a thousand pieces and throw it in the dumpster that was parked outside our house. And she was like, um, well, you can't do that, but maybe switch to a different instrument. In fourth grade, we were allowed to pick a band instrument. So I did clarinet. And after two weeks of clarinet, I was like, I want my cello back. But she said, we've rented this clarinet for the whole year. You have to keep it. So in fifth grade, as soon as I could, I switched back to cello and stuck with it all through. 

Alyssa: 23:47

But I don't think I was a great practicer. And I never thought that I would really go to music school. I went to liberal arts college and experimented a bit with different subjects. And after a while, I was like, wait a minute, I want to be a music major. But in liberal arts college, it's like music history and music theory and ethnomusicology and performance. So I kind of dabbled. After that, I had this interest in world music and in looking at music from a cultural perspective. So that's when I went to grad school for ethnomusicology. Which was supposed to be a doctorate, but after a couple of years, I was like, this is crazy. Why am I spending all this time reading and writing about music? I just want to be playing music. So I left that program and was trying to figure out, okay, how can I have a career that has something to do with music? I don't want to have a 40-hour week job. What's the thing that I could do that could earn the most money per hour? I was like, oh, teach cello. So I think I might be the only person in the history of the world who went into music for the money. 

Alyssa: 25:00

And I just happened to stumble across some Suzuki teacher training. So I was like, well, I don't actually know how to teach very well. Maybe I should learn how to do that. And the Suzuki Association offers training and got involved with the Suzuki School of Newton through that, and the rest is history. So it was really through teaching that I found myself as a cellist and through learning about the Suzuki training, I started to learn more about, oh, maybe I need to change my mind a little bit about how I approach the instrument. And I started teaching myself more, got some more discipline about my practicing, and that opened up some things for performing too. Now I feel a little more balanced between my teaching and performing.

Speaker 25:42

Good morning, everyone. Hi, Alyssa. I know the focus here is on maybe as a teacher and a parent, but I want to sort of zoom out a little and push back a little on the whole idea of teaching creativity and whether creativity is something that you think is actually something that we allow to flourish and grow out of ourselves. It's more like, you know, a lot of parenting advice is just don't get in the way of the kids, right? It's like human beings are so inherently creative and inherently curious, as you talked about. So is the idea of teaching creativity actually kind of oxymoronic?

Alyssa 26:20

Yes, absolutely. We can't teach creativity. But I do think then it comes to that question of how do we balance giving them the skills to express their creativity with getting out of the way. I love that idea. That's why it's really hard to be a parent and to be a teacher. And you just figure it out depending on each kid. And I think if anybody says that they have the answer for all kids, then don't listen to that person.

Speaker 26:49

Alyssa, it's often been said that musical instruments are simply an extension of the human voice. That is our built-in instrument. Do you see any way of encouraging the playing of a musical instrument by having them say, sing the tune? I think it's particularly important in piano, actually, where you hit the note and that's it. So unless you can make the notes play in a sequence as we would by breathing for volume control, it must be very difficult to, for some kids anyway, to understand what they're doing, what they could do. Because creativity is not just self-expression, it is channeling the music of the composer.

Alyssa 27:31

Yeah, I think it is so important to encourage singing and movement as part of early music education and hopefully ongoing music education. And I think that there is a way, in the opposite end of the spectrum, to tell a kid, put your finger here, pull your bow this way, then put your other finger here and push your bow that way. And the kid's not even really listening and can't really tell, and they just are going by rote. And sometimes kids are learning that way, and we don't even find out until we say, okay, well, could you just sing that song that you played? And they're like, oh no, I can't. So I do think that singing and movement are really important from a young age and going on forever. And I think when you connect that internal hearing to what you can do with your fingers, that's what enables you to improvise and to compose. So that your training is such an important part of creativity, yes.

Speaker 28:29

Do you find yourself sometimes say, now you played, now sing it for me?

Alyssa 28:35

Well, I often have them sing it first before they play it. And that's how they earn playing it.

Speaker 28:41

You can use some body language to get the point across.

Alyssa 28:45

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we use different hand signs for the different notes. Like I don't know if you know the Curwen hand signs. There's like do is a fist, re is an open hand, mi is the next hand. So they are, it's built into the system. They're moving their body when they sing.

Matt 29:04

Well, I think we've had a good discussion here for the podcast. So we'll cut the podcast off here, but afterwards separate out into small groups here and I encourage you to keep on talking on this topic yourselves and how you attack this problem or question. But thank you, Alyssa, for joining and thank you for being here everyone.

Alyssa: 29:18

Thank you, Matt. Thank you everybody.

Matt 29:22

So that's it from a conversation with Alyssa. If you want to hear more Creative Chats episodes and other episodes I do for the podcast, discovering and connecting the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown, you can head on over to LittleLocalConversations.com. I have all the episodes, upcoming events, including the next Creative Chats on Friday, April 3rd, with Eileen Ryan on the topic of how do you stand out in a crowd. I'm also very excited that on Thursday, June 4th, we're gonna have the very first Creative Chats Conference. It's gonna be a four-hour afternoon event with multiple conversations. Mark your calendars for Thursday, June 4th. Should be a good afternoon of conversations and creative community building. 

Matt: 30:01

All right, and I want to give a few shout outs here to wrap things up. First one goes to the podcast sponsor, Arsenal Financial, which is a financial planning business here in Watertown that's owned by Doug Orifice, a very committed community member, and his business helps support busy families, small businesses, and people close to retirement. So if you need help in any of those areas, reach out to Doug and his team at ArsenalFinancial.com. I also want to give a thank you to the Watertown Cultural Council, who have given me a grant this year to help support the podcast. So I want to give them the appropriate credit, which is, this program is supported in part by a grant from the Watertown Cultural Council, a local agency, which is supported by the Mass Cultural Council, a state agency. You can find out more about them at WatertownCulturalCouncil.org and MassCulturalCouncil.org. And a couple more shout outs to promotional partners. First, the Watertown Business Coalition. Their motto is Community is Our Business. Find out more about them at WatertownBusinessCoalition.com. And lastly, Watertown News, which is a Watertown focused online newspaper. It's a great place to keep up to date with everything going on in the city. Check that out at WatertownMANews.com. So that's it. Until next time, take care.