Creative Chats With Guest Cat Bennett (Finding Your Artistic Path and Discovering What Comes Next)

This is a recording from a series for the podcast at the Mosesian Center for the Arts called Creative Chats. This conversation was with guest Cat Bennett, whose career spans making animated spots for children’s television, illustrations for many publishing clients, and now art for exhibition as well as teaching art to adults. The topic for the conversation revolved around how she weaved her artistic path and how an artist figures out what to do next.

Find out more about Cat and her art at catbennett.net

Come join us for the last Creative Chats event of the season on Friday, June 20th with guest Arto Vaun!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Creative Chats
• 2:45 Kat Bennett's Artistic Journey
• 5:38 Finding Your Next Creative Direction
• 10:00 Taking Risks to Reinvent Your Art
• 16:12 Daily Creative Practice and Exploration
• 19:48 Teaching Art Without Criticism
• 27:25 Episode Wrap-up and Announcements

Transcript

Matt: 0:07

Hi there, welcome to the Little Local Conversations podcast. I'm your host, Matt Hanna. Every episode I sit down for a conversation with someone in Watertown to discover the people, places, stories, and ideas of Watertown. This episode is a special Creative Chats episode that was recorded live at the Mosesian Center for the Arts back in April. And the guest for this one was Cat Bennett, who has had a long artistic career spanning animation, illustration, teaching and we get into all that. So let's get into the conversation.

Matt: 0:35 

Well, thank you everyone who came out on this before the holiday weekend and joined us for this. If you haven't been here before, this is called Creative Chats. It's part of my podcast, Little Local Conversations, and we’re going to have a short conversation up here for about 15 minutes. She came in with a question, Cat. I'll let her introduce herself briefly and then ask her a few questions and then usually we split up into groups and talk about the topic ourselves afterwards. So do you want to introduce yourself a little bit? Just say your name, and I know you've done a lot of things, but what is your preferred, you know, three sentence description of yourself?

Cat: 1:05

Well, my name is Cat Bennett. I started out as a film animator, worked at the National Film Board of Canada for five years. Then I came to Boston. I did a lot of animations after that as well little spot animation for Sesame Street and Nickelodeon TV for kids. And then I was at the same time doing illustration for newspapers and magazines for many years, like many, 30 or something like that. I started, I actually got an invitation to teach here at the Mosesian Center and that was the beginning of my teaching and love of teaching, which became a passion. I really love it and I do a lot of teaching now.

Cat: 1:41

The whole illustration world changed with the internet. So basically, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, that was the end of it. I was working for Time magazine for like maybe five years and then it just dried up and I stopped and segwayed into, or I tried to segway into, what is known as fine art. But I don't really understand fine art because I'm really a graphic artist. But I do what I can and I do go into exhibitions. And for me art is about much more than what goes on the wall. It's like just a life, it's your whole life. You know, I've done this since I was a child really, and so I just kept going. I just didn't stop being that kid you know who drew and did stuff, made things.

Matt: 2:22

Right. So it sounds like you've had a lot of stages in your artistic career. 

Cat: 2:25

I did.

Matt: 2:27

So, the question you had sent to me that thought would be good to talk about was kind of how do you figure out what's next as an artist? And there's lots of different angles on that. There's kind of the stage of your career, but then there's also like when you're physically in a small detail of a project, where do you go next? What angle would you like to talk about first?

Cat: 2:45

Well, you know, thank you for saying that, because I hadn't really thought of it that way, but it's true. There are stages of your career and you can see that when you look at any of the great artists. You know Picasso, Matisse, who's one of my favorite artists, an artist that I really have loved and influenced me a lot. And if you look at the stages of his work, if you look at his early work, which is very dull and literal, we wouldn't know him today if he hadn't gone through many changes and rebirths really. So then he went to the south of France and discovered color. All of his work completely changed and that's why we know him. I mean, it's just like it was so brilliant, it was so beautiful and he just celebrated beauty.

Cat: 3:22

But when he was in his 80s he had his phenomenal breakthrough. He was dying and he couldn't make art, he couldn't do the paintings, he didn't have the strength to do it. But he had a friend who was taking care of him, who was a nun. And he got her to paint papers and he had the idea to make these giant collages and that's his cut paperwork. And to me, and he felt it himself, that it was like just a phenomenal breakthrough for color. It walks the line between abstraction and representation. And I saw it in New York many years ago in person and it's the most joyful work that I've ever experienced.

Cat: 3:59

So he went through all those stages and, you know, when he was young he was really searching for something. And he found it when he just traveled and found color in the south of France. And then it's interesting that when he was really in his worst shape and suffering, that he found this other work. But what's interesting to me is, you know, that art is just this spiritual path and it really just carries you forward. It saves your life, it takes you somewhere. It always takes you higher. So you know, he's a very good example of those stages. My stages aren't quite as illustrious, but.

Matt: 4:35

Yeah, but maybe you could take us through one of your shifts in stages and what kind of led you to decide to do something different.

Cat: 4:43

Okay, I can do that, Matt. I'm thinking of when I was an illustrator. I did a lot of editorial illustrations for newspapers, especially the Boston Globe. I did three, four, sometimes five illustrations a week for them. And I had no, I did not go to art school, I did not have any art training, completely self-taught. I wasn't that good really at drawing, but I had a kind of uniqueness and I think that's why I was hired.

Cat: 5:07

But at a certain point everything shifts. You know, when I started in illustration, people were doing these very realistic things. I could never do that because I didn't have the skills. So I just did my thing. But at a certain point my thing also began to feel a little stale to me. And I think that's what happens as artists. We do things, we do things, we do things and then there's not enough life in them anymore. So we say I need to make a shift.

Cat: 5:30

I was a single mother at the time. I had two kids and I was making all my living from being an illustrator. But I knew I had to change. I knew something had to happen, but I didn't know what. So I took two weeks off and I had my dining room table and I just got out paper and paints and stuff, and I just started playing around. And in that two weeks, I mean it was like out of desperation. There was an intense energy to it, you know. And I'd never had that time because I had been paid to make art from day one. So when you get paid to make art, when you're a commercial artist, like I was, you get paid to do what you've already done, you know. So to do something new, I had never taken that time for myself to do that.

Cat: 6:15

So it took two weeks and this stuff just happened, you know, because I think there was a pressure cooker energy to it. And I came up with this kind of collage and line drawing thing. And then I went out and tried to market that and nobody really knew what they were looking at or if they wanted it. They didn't know it yet. Turns out I was actually ahead of the curve on that and before you knew it I was super popular again, you know. So that was one shift. It could have worked. It could not have worked. It went for, I would say, months when it didn't work. So I went big lull, you know, am I going to pay my rent, all that stuff, you know. But that's the life, you know. So that was one shift. 

Matt: 6:50

And how did you have the courage to stick with like, I mean, there's always that talked about in so many of these talks I’ve done before that, you know, the commerce versus the artistic stuff. But you said you had that lull at first, how did you have the courage to stick with that and not go back to the drawing board and like did I make the wrong decision?

Cat: 7:05

I wouldn't say necessarily it was courage. I have a kind of blind faith. You know, I just, I had the blind faith to be an artist. I mean it's not a sensible choice. Normal people don't make that kind of decision. They make sensible decisions and it's really a good thing to make sensible decisions. But I didn't make a sensible decision. And, you know, my father warned me you will be living in an attic, hovel, and starving. Do you want that? And I'm like that's all right, except for the starving part, but I'll find somebody to feed me. So anyway, you know we make these decisions. They're not really logical or whatever, but I kind of think in some ways our lives are given to us and that we're meant to do these things.

Cat: 7:49

You know, I tried at various times in my life to be sensible, to get a job and stuff, because freelancing is up and down and it's difficult. I could never think of anything that I could do and also I could never find anyone who would hire me, which was really more to the point. I mean, I did get hired occasionally but then I really just couldn't, I couldn't find the right match. Had I had Matt's skills, I would have done what Matt's doing as a designer, because I did do book design and stuff as well. But yeah, anyway, I'm blathering.

Matt: 8:18

No, that's, it's all interesting. So how about a time when you, because you've done kind of different mediums too, how did those shifts happen for you?

Cat: 8:25

Well, like I said, I started in animation and I really wasn't a great animator and I didn't really like it a lot. It was really really labor intensive and I knew that wasn't for me. I'm a very idea-based person and it was just way, way too much plodding labor.

Matt: 8:42

How did you get into animation to begin with if it wasn't your thing?

Cat: 8:44

Well, I got into it because I had, when I'd gone to university, I'd studied art history and English literature. I love both words and images. And I was part of the McGill, I went to McGill, Film Society. We had a film festival and I met this Japanese animator and I thought, well, this is perfect, combines words and images. And I knew the films of the National Film Board of Canada, which happens to be. It was headquartered in Montreal, which is where I was living, and I'm like that's where I want to work. I want to work in the animation department and I had a single-minded, just mission to work there. I had no film training or anything and I didn't even draw that well. I just drew for myself, but I always drew. It was more cartoon stuff and everything. Just a complete mission. I had no doubt that I would work there.

Cat: 9:34

It was pretty interesting and they got, I don't know, hundreds of applications to the animation department. It was considered extremely prestigious. I did not deserve to be there, but I got there, I think, simply because of my single-minded desire. And I got hired and had the best five years of my working life, I would say, to this day. It was just so much fun, even though I did realize I don't have the things that it takes to be a good animation filmmaker. But that was okay. All of that drawing led me to illustration and to graphic art and I was drawing eight hours a day, every day. So it was great training and great people.

Matt: 10:12

That's kind of how the shift happened, you were kind of doing that, you found a piece of the work that you were doing that you enjoyed, and then you kind of made, brought that up as the main thing.

Cat: 10:19

Yes, yes, thank you for summing that up so well. 

Matt: 10:24

Yeah, cool. So maybe now we can talk about on more of a smaller scale. So is there a particular project maybe you're working on recently, or one that in the past that was really impactful, where you kind of had that shift moment, but on the smaller scale of how do I go forward with this? And how did you work your way through it?

Cat: 10:41

Yeah, I mean, I think that happens for all of us as creative artists all the time. Like, I get invited to be in these exhibitions, there's deadlines, I have to do the work, I get this body of work or a small body of work done, and then what? You know, what's the next thing? And then that's just always this thing of like, you know, sometimes I think I have to absolutely reinvent the wheel. And that's not true. I don't have to reinvent the wheel, but I think I do. And that is a kind of pressure I think that I feel. I don't know whether all artists feel it, we can talk about that later. But I think as artists, we're always trying to go higher. We're always trying to discover something and to connect with something that's kind of sublime. And you know, so you're looking, looking, and then what I do is usually just I've even started like waking up in the morning, I get up really early. It's like ridiculous. I don't want to get up so early, but I do like six or five, and I just go directly into my art room and I just start fooling around. You know, 90% of it is just going to go in the bin, but it's a process of discovery and I can fool around and just even have the pleasure of fooling around. I mean, it's like that, taking that two weeks where I just let myself fool around, I now can do that for half an hour before breakfast or an hour. Or before I go to bed I'll do the same thing. I'll pop in and I'll just like get my paints out or whatever, oh, they're always out, and dabble around.

Cat: 12:07

I'm not a high production artist at all and I don't think that, you know, being an artist is always about producing stuff. It's thinking and exploring life and really, you know, using art as a way, a vehicle to live and live fully. So that's why I do all of that kind of exploration. And then usually Matt, out of that, I go back to the stuff I've done before. I see there is a stream of stuff in my work and I know it's my sweet spot, but it'll be new and fresh after doing all that, you know, futzing around and stuff.

Matt: 12:42

Piece by piece, you're updating your style.

Cat: 12:45

Yeah, and my ideas, growing my ideas. And I look at stuff. I look at Instagram all the time. Some amazing artists on it, really get inspired by all of that. I've got all my art books. I love looking, I love looking at art. I go to museums. I, you know, my ideal holiday is going to some other place and just living in the museum. That's how I inspire myself.

Matt: 13:09

Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of things. There's the, I'll say the first one first. So how do you kind of balance, because you've been talking about this single-minded focus that you just drive forward with, but then also this wide exploration that you try to have? How do you balance those two points of view? 

Cat: 13:25

That's a good question. Well, I think the through line is that we're artists. I mean, you know, accepting that is the through line. And I like that you pointed out single-pointed focus, because that's actually a concept in yoga, you know, like yoga is teaching us to just bring our focus into the moment when you're doing those poses, and you can't stand on one leg if you're not focused. And it's the same with art. When we're doing art, everything else goes away. You forget other concerns, like you've got to put gas in the car and you've got to get food for dinner. All that stuff disappears. You are in another zone, another mindset, and it's this beautiful single-minded, single-pointed focus. So there's that. And then what was the next part of your question, Matt?

Matt: 14:07

Well, it was balancing that focus with the breadth of the exploration.

Cat: 14:11

Yeah, well, I think that comes for me from looking at all the other art and I go, oh gosh, my art is a little bit inferior to some of that stuff, you know. You know, especially now there's like this trend, or there has been for the last 30 or 40 years, this trend of this huge paintings and stuff. So my work is always small, or generally small. So you can think to yourself I've missed the mark. You know, like should really be getting a canvas in or something and pinning it to the wall. But I'm not that kind of artist, you know, and whenever I try to do stuff like that, I'm not interested, you know. So you have to know who you are. And so I like to see, the breadth is like, I like to see everything. I like to think about everything. I do a lot of writing. I like to do that. I like to explore everything and then basically listen to what is calling to me. And also, really I'm really about inspiration. You know, Picasso says inspiration finds you at work, so you keep working. But I'm really about I'm just a vehicle for all the creative. You know, we're all foot soldiers of art and we're vehicles for whatever wants to come through us. And what comes through us comes through us because of our life, the life we've lived, and our skills. I don't have the skills to do a large canvas, so luckily I never get an idea for that. But I do have graphic art skills and I do get lots of ideas in my own realm. And I'm really a book person, so I get lots of ideas about that stuff.

Matt: 15:39

Yeah. So maybe the last question I'll throw here before I'll throw it out for questions from others. How are you thinking about your next step going forward with your art? Are you in a current state of mind of how you're looking to go forward now?

Cat: 15:48

I don't know what exactly what will happen. You know, I have my through line of art, which is a kind of pop art thing that I do, which I invent these companies and they're like hair salons and stuff like that, and I do the Paradiso hair salon. It's all about these messages that I like to put out. I have my tea companies and stuff like that, but they're just, they're graphic art. But at the same time, I have this very lively teaching thing that I'm doing and I have an online thing I do with a friend of mine who's a bookbinder. So she does the bookbinding part and then I help the students make a book.

Cat: 16:20

So I've really gotten into bookmaking and conceptualizing books and doing art in books and it's taking more and more of my mental time and my imagination. So I see, really that is really the perfect fit for me, because I really do work small. I've always done stuff for publishers and books and newspapers. So yeah, it's sort of like it's coming full circle. With luck, I have a good long life and can do something fun with that. But you know, even though I am a little older, Matt, your listeners don't realize that my hair is white maybe. But yeah, I still, I mean, I think art is just great energy and I hope that I can do more stuff and have it be as interesting as the other stuff I've done, you know, for me, yeah.

Matt: 17:04

Yeah, nice. Let me open up to anyone. I know Roberta's always good for questions. So here you go, Roberta.

Speaker 3: 17:11

And this isn't quite a question. I just have to illuminate something about Cat, which is so incredibly special because we had a very intimate relationship, because we raised our kids, 

Cat: 17:22

Not that intimate, Bertie.

Speaker 3: 17:23

Right, not that intimate. Well, I think it was intimate because it was a living relationship. So we raised our children together, but then we shared an office and we were both consultants. And I have to say that Cat has been a huge inspiration to me. Because I mean, you're hearing about the art through line, but one of the amazing things I thought about Cat and she was very early, and you'll hear this word very early, because often Cat will catch something before it gets popular. And what she caught for me during those years is she was doing freelance work and doing consulting, which I ended up doing also. But I didn't know anybody else who was doing that kind of work.

Speaker 3: 18:10

I knew how to get a job and then you sit there and you work and you do this. Well, I was also in a situation where that wasn't possible. And Cat showed me how to integrate kind of a commercial life and an emotional life and a family life all together. So what she was doing was wrestling with all of these forces and integrating them into a life that made sense for her. It didn't look like any other people's lives that I knew and I thought, oh, it doesn't look like anything else I know. So, therefore, I can make my own life exactly the way I want to make it. So it wasn't just art. She integrates art into her life in a way that shows you how to live your life. Which I think was really remarkable. So sorry, Cat, I just had to say that.

Cat: 19:02

Oh, thank you so much. That really touches my heart. And it's not like I knew what I was doing. I didn't. Maybe it appeared that I did.

Speaker 3: 19:11

Well, I saw you find your way courageously. And that, I think, is the thing that absolutely has to motivate all of us and I think you've said that in many words that you've just spoken so beautifully. You have to live courageously. And you were such an inspiration in that way to live authentically. Not that you didn't make mistakes we

Cat: 19:35

No, I made plenty of those. 

Speaker 3: 19:36

Yeah, you tried a bunch of stuff and it didn't work. But every once in a while you'd come in and say I had a dream. I had a dream and this is how this should go together for this next phase. So that's how it appeared to me from the outside.

Cat: 19:51

Oh, thank you so much, Bertie. And you've been a great inspiration to me as well. I mean, the things that you've done are amazing, including what you've contributed to this wonderful art center. So I think this is a beautiful thing that we're all influencing each other and we're all in a web of creativity, and Bertie's creativity came out in a different way. The way that she was designed to be in this world, and that she's done a phenomenal job of creating this art center and, yeah, it's so interesting.

Speaker 4: 20:20

So you were talking about going to the museum and feeling like inferior to some of the greats you're seeing, and also talking about fine art versus design. Could you talk a little more about that, like how you balance that for yourself?

Cat: 20:35

Sure, I remember when I, you know, really did stop being an illustrator and then I'm like the whole world of fine art was just a mystery to me. I had no idea how people entered that world. I would read about it, oh, you get a body of work, you go and try to interest a gallery or whatever. But I also remember having dinner with a couple from New York who were artists. And during the dinner the guy said to me, Cat, you will never succeed as a fine artist. I didn't really take it personally, but I thought, oh, you're probably right, you know. Because really when I look at a lot of stuff in galleries and stuff, I see that my work doesn't really fit in, you know. But I've also learned over all my years doing this stuff, it's okay not to fit in. Like when I reinvented myself as an illustrator, I did not fit in. Nobody else was doing what I did. And I didn't know whether that was, you know, I just sunk my own ship, or whether it would take me somewhere. I didn't really know and I really couldn't even think about it. I just carried on and stuff happened. But yeah, so I don't really know, Matt, how I really think about all that stuff.

Cat: 21:46

There's a part of me, because I have a lot of artists that I love, like I have one artist. I actually met him in person. He came to Boston. It was one of the highlights of my life. I just super love both him and his wife. They were fantastic illustrators and they've become great artists and they're married. It's like, oh my gosh, it was my bonanza day. I was like so nervous, you know, and then we just had the best day together at the Harvard Art Museums. It was fabulous. And his is an interesting story because when he was 22, he won a prize. He lived in Nebraska and the governor of Nebraska looked at his art and said this is pornographic, take the prize away from him. And he did not make another painting until he was 58. And he's now 82 or 83, and he's had 30 solo exhibitions of his work. He's just amazing. Whenever I'm doing stuff, I think of Ward, Shoemaker is his last name. Because I think, oh, I want to be as good as Ward. But that's a good thing, because it sort of drives you forward.

Cat: 22:44

I want to still walk as far on the edge as I can with who I am. I want to go to my edge, and we don't know where the edge is, ever. So I just keep going, you know, and I'm like, okay, I can do this. This is super comfortable, I'm really good at this part of my art. But there's also like, can I just explore this? And sometimes I explore things and I go, you know I can do it, but I'm just not intellectually engaged in it. So I go back to something that is really keeping me curious, keeping me alive, and so I'm just looking for the spot where I really feel creatively engaged.

Cat: 23:19

Art is also a way of finding out who we are. You know, you find out as you keep going. But I just want to make my art who I am. Because I think we're all here as individuals, just every single one of us is completely unique and beautiful. If I try to do something like Mark Rothko. I'm really good at color, I could do it, but that's not who I am. So I just want to be more and more who I am. That's all I can think. And it doesn't fit in anywhere, Matt, so that's the lost cause. But it's okay, it's the same time I get to sell my work. I do sell it and you just find your way. And the Internet is great.

Speaker 5: 23:54

You mentioned that as an educator, you found joy in that. And I was wondering what are maybe, what artistic processes from your own art world, your artist as educator, what informs you as your pedagogy and your teaching, if that makes sense?

Cat: 24:07

Pedagogy is a big word for me, but that's okay, I'm glad everybody has a good vocabulary. I love teaching. It has turned out to be an amazing joy for me, unexpected. I never had any thought of teaching at all. And I love it because I love seeing what happens to people when they make art. It's just a beautiful, liberating thing and they come into themselves. It can be true for music, for writing, for any of the arts. It's just such a beautiful thing. I mean, people walk in, they're scared, I don't know whether I can do this. And then the next thing is they're like thrilled. Oh my gosh, they're doing it, you know, and it's amazing what happens. And so my thing, the pedagogy I guess, is I have no criticism in the class.

Cat: 24:54

I know that people come from art schools. They've had critiques. I've seen people destroyed by those critiques. One woman I had in one of my classes said that when they did the group critique at the end of her senior year the teacher said, look at these paintings and you'll see everything that is wrong about painting in them. And she had to leave her four years of study with that teacher's comment and she had to go into therapy for it, you know. So I do not believe in that approach to making art. I believe that everybody has something and that you will find what you're meant to do by doing. Just doing and doing and making and growing your skills. Every drawing you make, you're better. Every painting you make, you're better. You know, so you just keep doing it. So there's absolutely no criticism. I don't go, you know, you could have deepened that blue, or you know, I never do stuff like that. I don't want to interfere with anybody else's creative process in the least. It's up to them, to you.

Cat: 25:49

And then the other thing, I teach people to watch their minds, because we have a lot of negative self-talk, all of us and it's very easy to say, as I said earlier. That I go to a museum, maybe my work isn't, as you know. That's also just a sort of rational analysis, but the positive way to put that is my work is different. And so what I try to teach people is to watch their thoughts, because we can have very subtle undermining thoughts. I don't have enough skills, you know. I maybe need to take, you know, five years of drawing classes before I can touch a paintbrush. You know I've heard everything. And so what I do as a teacher is every single negative thought that I hear, I change to a positive thought. So that's how I do it as a teacher.

Matt: 26:33

Awesome. I think we'll wrap it up here for the podcast, but we'll continue our conversation afterwards. But thank you, Cat, for coming up and sharing your thoughts.

Cat: 26:40

Oh, thank you so much, Matt. It was a lot of fun.

Matt: 26:45

So that's it for my conversation with Cat. I'll put links in the show notes so you can find more information about her and her art. And if you want to join in a Creative Chats event, in the audience, listen to the conversation live, ask some of your own questions of the guest, and then take part in the conversations we do after the recording is done, among all the people who are there. It's a great creative environment, great conversations. The last one for this season, before we take a little summer break, is going to be on June 20th. It's a Friday morning, again at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. Guest is going to be Arto Vaun, who is a musician, poet, and executive director at the Project Save Photograph Archive here in Watertown. Again that is June 20th, Friday morning, 830, at the Mosesian Center for the Arts. Information in the show notes. If you want to come out to that, I'd love to see you there.

Matt: 27:28

All right, and a few shout-outs to wrap things up here. First I want to give a thank you to Arsenal Financial, podcast sponsor, which is a financial planning business here in Watertown that is owned by Doug Orifice, who is a very committed community member. You can listen to my Watertown trivia episode I did with him to help celebrate the sponsorship. That'll be in the show notes. And if you need help with your financial planning, they focus on small businesses, busy families, people closer to retirement. So if you're in any of those categories and you need help, reach out to them at arsenalfinancial.com and Doug and his team can help you.

Matt: 27:57

I just want to give a shout out to a couple of promotional partners. First, the Watertown Business Coalition, which is a nonprofit organization here in Watertown that is bringing businesses and people together to help strengthen the community. You can check them out and all their events going on at watertownbusinesscoalition.com. And also to Watertown News, which is a Watertown-focused online newspaper. You can keep up to date with lots of things going on in Watertown. Charlie, who I've interviewed on the podcast, does a great job over there and you can check all that out at watertownmanews.com. So that's it. Until next time, take care.